I first heard about Hipster Pug on The Phil Thomas Reviews Podcast and have since really come to enjoy his music. The brainchild of Tom Warnders, Hipster Pug has been releasing music since 2018, evolving from downtempo, lo-fi experimental albums into a more ambient, neoclassical style that, according to the bio on his label’s website represented “a better fit for his writing.” With his latest album, Nouveau Chapitre (French, as I’m sure you’ve guessed, for “new chapter”), Warnders continues to hone his skills at writing and recording story-based instrumental music.

First off, Hipster Pug is a cool name.  Where did it come from? Is it safe to assume that you’re a dog lover?

That is true I love dogs. The story of the name is that when I started with making music I really didn’t have a name and I didn’t want to use my own name, so I was like, what will work, and I came up with the idea for Hipster Pug. It sounded nice and I like pugs and Hipsters.

I’m curious about your evolution as a songwriter. What led to your shift from lo-fi experimental music to ambient neoclassical?

When I started in 2018, I had no idea how to make music and wanted to try different things. My first project was a very experimental project called Robot Among Us. After that  I started using all sort of samples, and at that point I had a lot of Lo-Fi sample packs. I did really enjoy lo-fi music and downtempo music, (like Bonobo and Tycho), so I wanted to make similar music like them.

In 2019 I was a bit done with using samples, and it felt a bit like cheating. (It isn’t, because it is a great way to learn to make music!) So I was listening to a lot of music from Olafur Arnalds and Nils Frahm and loved that style of music. That is when I moved more to the ambient and neoclassical side of music. And also started with making my own music with virtual instruments.
But I would love to get back to making a more Experimental project.

How would you describe the difference between the two?

What I hear in earlier albums/EP’s is that I did not exactly knew how everything worked and working with samples give a different style to an album because you don’t play it yourself so it will be more difficult to create a story with real feeling with the music you make.

When I was working on Neon Noir (2020 album) I had a very clear story I wanted to tell and even a more personal story. It was about overcoming your fears, growing and to be more confident at that point I was dealing with all of that and I felt like the only way to tell that story to others was  to make it in a music piece.

The difference is that I can focus more on a story now and really choose how I want to tell it by making it myself instead of using samples.

As someone who works in an instrumental milieu, do you ever find it difficult to slot your music into a particular genre?

Sometimes I know now more what kind of music genre I make and what I want to make now than a couple of years ago. Then it was always a bit of a mix of genres but not really one genre overall, so when I make an album or a EP now I start with the kind of style I want and where it fits with which genre of music. And what is the story I want to tell with the Project.

I’m struck by the notion that you’re interested in telling stories through music—without the use of words. Why eschew words?

This is a choice I made very early because I wanted to see of it was possible to tell a story with only sound. I’m not against lyrics, but I only would use lyrics if it fit with the whole music project. And I want lyrics that bring something special to the whole project. I would love to do a poetry project (I did one in 2019 called World of Poetry), so I’m not against using words, but it feels more like a challenge to make music without them.

It also gives people the space to tell their own stories and thoughts with the music. I always tell a story in my music but am also really happy to read or hear that people have their own story with a song–and what kind of emotion people have with the music. So what I want to say is not always to search for my story but make it your own story.

Along similar lines, how do you tell a story without words?

Instruments are really important if you do this. It might sound weird but every instrument plays a different part in a song and sometimes a piano can be uplifting and happy but in another song it may sound dark and eerie and it plays a completely different part then.

Also octaves are a way to tell a story–the higher it sounds, the lighter it becomes, and when you go fully down with octaves it brings a really dark sound.

And the last thing I work with are effects. (Delay and reverb are my best friends in making music haha). A whole song can change with effects and how a delay or reverb sounds is also important. Sometimes a small change has a great effect on a whole song.

And, sticking to that topic just a little longer, why is storytelling important to your approach to making music? What is its value?

For me, personally, it is  important because I always feel that I should leave a message with an album, that when people hear the album, they might think about something. For example, with this new EP I hope that people find their way of starting a new chapter like doing something they always wanted to do and follow their dreams and goals. I want people to listen to the music and hope they have their own story with a song or an album that when they listen, they have a happy memory or feel confident to do what they want to do because the most important thing for me is to follow your dreams and take steps towards that goal/dream.

Is there anything in your background that led you to this particular type of storytelling—i.e. telling stories through music as opposed to words?

I think like I said before, I felt it was a challenge to make  music without words and wanted to do something different. But I was really intrigued by the music of some of the Neo classical artists like Max Richter, Nils Frahm and Olafur Arnalds because they could make music without words and tell a whole story on their albums.

And that was for me also a way to hear that I could tell the story of Neon Noir in a way I felt comfortable with. As I mentioned before, lyrics need to have meaning in a song. Without it, I feel it is a waste of good music

I love the lyrics from Nick Cave and Leonard Cohen. They make/made very poetic. Lyrics that means a lot and tell a story very well in a poetic way. (You should listen to Lavender Fields from Nick Cave and Leonard cohen’s song “The Partisan.”) So if I use words they need to add to the story and to the song.

Your bio mentions that you took a short break from music. Is that something you’re comfortable talking about?

I can tell a bit without going too personal, but one of the reasons was very simple: I lost the spark to make music. I could create ten songs and felt like it sounded like nothing to me, and I had maybe 100 ideas but I couldn’t create a single one of those ideas.
There was more but I feel that is too personal to share, but I can tell you that it led me back to starting to work on music again at the beginning of this year. Because I know it is really important to some people in my life and that means a lot to me, so why should I give up? When I started making music, I felt if I can help people, that was then and still is one of the most important things and reasons I make music.

Now that you’re back from your break, does Nouveau Chapitre literally represent a new chapter in your relationship with music?

I guess it was funny to hear, but someone told me that this album sounded more mature than my previous work and that is what I hope to keep doing–making more music that is sounding more mature. I also listen differently to music, and sometimes that can be annoying but also very helpful. I always try to hear and find new things that I could use in my music. I’m also more serious about making music. When I started, I could work on something for weeks and knew it was not going to be anything. Right now I start with something and if I still like it a day after, I keep working on it; otherwise, I move on and start with a different song. That way I don’t lose time on making music that I know I will not release.

What does le prochain chapitre have in store?

You know what? I will answer this question in French. (Thanks, Google translate haha!): J’ai peut-être déjà donné quelques indices, mais il y a beaucoup d’idées et je suppose que certaines de ces idées seront transformées en un projet musical.*

Thanks for taking the time to talk to me!

Thanks for the wonderful and really great questions had a lot of fun answering them and at some points I really had to think how to write it down but hope you all can enjoy this interview!

*Translation: I may have already given some clues, but I have a lot of ideas and I guess some of these ideas will turn into a musical project.