I’ve known Ben Smith off and on over the past couple of decades. Years ago I was a big fan of his bands Wise and Foolish Builders and Missing Palmer West, hearing in Wise and Foolish Builders distinct echoes of Smile-era Brian Wilson collaborator Van Dyke Parks. I used to see them perform somewhat regularly at the now-defunct and all-but-forgotten coffeehouse The Point in Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, where I also such legendary (to my mind) acts as Graham Parker and Peter Tork–it wasn’t uncommon for bands to be accompanied by fire engines screaming out of the firehouse across the street from the venue…

You’ve been involved in the Philadelphia music scene for quite a while. I definitely remember seeing you perform with Wise and Foolish Builders as well as Missing Palmer West. Can you give my readers a quick rundown of your musical history? Do any memories particularly stand out?

 In the late 90s, I was in The Gilroys, a jazzy, jammy band with friends Sean Hoots, Matt Magarahan, and Tim Celfo–out in West Chester. We played a lot of shows, and I met a lot of people in the music community back then, made a lot of friends. Then Matt and I left to form Wise and Foolish Builders, and we got really into home recording. We played all around the area for 5-ish years, CMJ Festivals, etc.,back when that was a thing. We were excited when Bruce Warren played one of our first recordings during a World Cafe Live show. XPN were great supporters through my years with Missing Palmer West, too—inviting us to play “Jungleland” at a showcase for their salute to Springsteen’s Born to Run album. One memorable gig was when we played with Dr. Dog and Me Without You at Johnny Brenda’s–we were all old friends from back in the West Chester days. Lots of shows at Rex’s. Later, after my first solo record Crooked Earth, they were kind enough to have me for one of their Key Studio Video Sessions. Robert Drake has played a lot of my original Christmas songs, during his Night Before program on Christmas Eve. I’ve got an annual Christmas project I call Old Man Winter. 

Your new album, Outro, represents among other things an attempt at working with more musicians than you have in the past. What was behind that decision, and how did it change your approach to writing and recording music?

Having a space at home to write and record has its pros and cons. It means I can write at my own pace, I can experiment with sounds, I can flesh out an idea, control the sound, presentation, and performance. I can–and have–do the whole production by myself without ever talking to anyone else.  I can edit a track within an inch of its own life. But that’s often not a good idea–or a particularly creative one. That means I’m the only listener, I’m the only voice in the room–and I’m the only performer. Why subject myself–and the listener–to that? On the practical side, why would I want to share my comped guitar tracks when I could get people like Neil Cavanagh, Sean Hoots, and Brad Hinton to play them? Why stack every vocal harmony on my own, when someone like Eliza Hardy Jones can elevate a track into the stratosphere? Why be the sole writer on a song, when I could connect with a friend and songwriter, like Molly Martin? As a solo artist, I’ve needed to reach out and collaborate with people. It’s helped not only the songs, but me. I don’t think many of us are “better” (whatever that means) when we’re “out of community.” Sometimes making something of your own can feel very isolating, but it shouldn’t. I can get a little introverted, so I wanted to make sure I pushed myself to involve as many people as I could–including reaching out to people I haven’t seen in decades (like Neil) or have only met online (like Alex Weinstein.) Songs are better–I’m better–when I’m inviting people to be a part of something. And everyone of these musicians and artists elevated the project, more than I ever could on my own. 

I’m also curious about the album’s title. The cover art depicts you with a hobo sack slung over your shoulder as you wave goodbye, a look of resignation on your face. What are you waving goodbye to? There’s also some humor in the image. Your bindle stick is a mop, and there’s a spray bottle hooked onto your belt. Do you feel like a janitor in some way? Are you done cleaning up other people’s messes?

I love Brian Langan’s cover design. Brian Langan is a tremendous Philadelphia artist and musician. You can check him out on Instagram at @brian_langan. The concept began with an idea I’ve had for years which is inspired by Leonard Cohen’s song “Tower of Song.” Cohen’s song imagines a tower where all the songwriters live. In one verse, he imagines Hank Williams coughing from one hundred floors above him. If there’s a tower of song somewhere, my wish has always been to be at least the guy who sweeps the streets outside the tower. I’ll gladly sweep up Leonard Cohen’s cigarette ashes if I can just play a small part in and around that tall old tower. 

I recall hearing your cover of a Yes tune on WXPN a few years back — or maybe more! Is Yes or, more broadly, prog rock an influence on your music? 

I did a cover of “Entangled,” an old Genesis song. Back in college I was in a tribute band of early-Genesis and Yes songs. My friend Neil who plays on this record was in that band–and that’s the last time we’ve worked together, over 30 years ago. I like the drama and ambition of prog.  And the theater of it all. One of my favorite albums is Genesis’ The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. That Peter Gabriel-era of the band is just so positively weird and big and emotional and theatrical. I’m not exactly sure how that interest shows up in the songs I write today. I’d love to write a 26-minute song in odd time signatures–about goblins or some shit. Maybe that will be my next project. 

The tagline on your website describes you as an author, songwriter, and teacher. How do those pursuits inform each other?

It’s all writing! 

Your novel, Darling Energy, came out in 2020. What inspired it?

Everything. Life, Teaching. The profound relationships you can have with kids. Their discovery of the world. Their generosity in the face of a strange, beautiful, ugly, wonderful world–and how you can, from time to time, see the world through their eyes. How they improve me. 

Do you have plans for another?

I’ve finished a second novel, which has the unfortunate working title of Winkle. Here’s the logline: When a piano tuner writes an unexpected hit recruitment song for a Catskills sleep sanctuary, he finds himself on the frontline of a New Age revolution and in the middle of an investigation into the death of a former child TV star. 

Any plans to take Outro on the road this summer? 

I have a show opening for All the Living and the Dead & I Think Like Midnight at Johnny Brenda’s on June 14th at 9pm. 

Just in planning phases of a proper release show for early fall (September-ish). 

I’m taking a sabbatical all next year, so I’ll have some more time for performance than usual.