A little while back, I interviewed All the Living and the Dead, whose cellist, Krista Umile, also plays in the Bret Tobias Set. I’d actually been a fan of BTS for a while, but it wasn’t until I reached out for an interview that I remembered that Bret and I had met before. I’m guessing it had to be around 2018 at the Haverford Music Festival, when we were both hanging out with our mutual friend, Chris McKenna, who’s pretty awesome guitarist in his own right. In any case, The Brett Tobias Set is an ever-evolving, incredibly inventive band with a flare for what Brett describes as “dad goth.” Their latest song, “It Begins with a Lean” is now available on Bandcamp and streaming services.

Your song “It Never Hurts Any Less (But You Get Fast)” was inspired by the bicyclist Greg LeMond, and the video features you on a racing bike. Are you a cyclist yourself?

I am. My former band, The Bigger Lovers, spent a good part of seven years in a van clawing for the next rung and it became a central part of our identity. When the Lovers folded I wasn’t quite sure who I was, and that’s when I started riding like a psychopath. Me and Andy Williams from Lefty’s Deceiver (as well as our friend Chris McKenna) got bitten by the bug around the same time. We went from indie rock lifers haunting the clubs to guys who meet at 5:40am at the art museum for a quick pre-work 40 mile ride. It was nuts, totally obsessive. I was always a pretty trim guy, but suddenly I find myself at 148 lbs, rocketing up climbs, and pretty much not being able to relate to anyone else in my life besides Andy. Over the years I’ve developed a slightly healthier approach to cycling (and have the gut to prove it). It was an exciting and slightly troubling transformation.

I was paging through some of your offerings on Bandcamp and saw they were tagged “dad goth.” What would you say puts the “dad” in dad goth?  

I guess if I have a brand it’s rumpled and relatable, hence “dad”. But the initial song cycle that got this project started included a couple of tunes that were impossibly bleak, “Bit of a Dick” being the most representative of this. I felt a little silly being this middle age, middle class guy with a lot of advantages wallowing in the depths of self-loathing, and “dad goth” captures that discomfort in lighthearted way. To be clear: I’ve never worn black lipstick.

Fair enough! You’re also very detailed and inventive when it comes to listing album credits. It’s not just “lead guitar,” for example. Instead, it’s “guitar bits that required panache.” What’s the thinking there?

That’s pretty simple: I’m 1) an English major and 2) a severely limited guitarist. I mostly write and record alone, and if I have any talent at all it’s in playing a lot of things just well enough to bang songs together. Any guitar parts that require skill or tone or fluidity get subbed out to Jeff Tanner.

The Bret Tobias Set also appears to have had a few different lineups since its inception in 2023. Do you seek out specific musicians to work with, or has it been more of an organic evolution?  

Yes and yes. A lot of it has to do with logistics and who’s busy and who’s available, but these are also people that I’ve wanted to play with for years, and the lineup is really solidifying–it wasn’t random. I did quite consciously poach Krista Umile after seeing her play with All the Living and the Dead. My recorded songs are quite organ heavy with a lot of layered harmonies, and we were missing a lot of that live prior to Krista coming on board. 

What have some of the musicians you’ve played with brought to your sound over the years? 

Pat Berkery brings a deep pocket that’s easy to build a foundation upon. Mike Kennedy’s a human metronome with jazzy fills, but also brings a lot of recording and mixing experience to the table (he’s mixed nearly everything we’ve put out). Tracy Stanton is a really solid bassist (who plays with a thumb pick!), but is also opinionated in the rehearsal room and is quick to call bullshit in a productive and endearing way. Jeff Tanner is a calm a presence but a wailing guitarist. Krista brings a massive amount of energy and typically has a million arrangement ideas long before lyrics are even done; plus she’s a one-woman string section. I’m really fucking lucky.

Your new song is called “It Begins with a Lean.” How is it different from your earlier music?

Oh I dunno. I guess it’s the most upbeat thing we’ve put out, despite the lyrical content. And Krista’s string arrangement is front and center. And I guess it’s the first time I’ve quit navel gazing and wrote something vaguely political.

You’ve described the song as “a jaunty little song about the end of civilization.” Do you think we’re getting close to eventuality? Or are we already there?

-I keep wondering that. It’s been an overwhelmingly disheartening couple weeks. I think we’ll find out soon whether the center holds or if we’re too far down the road to authoritarianism to turn back. Who, besides Steve Bannon, could have imagined this? 

The cover art is a photo depicts an eclipse. I kind of recall a guy looking up at an eclipse a while back. 2017, maybe? Orange, saggy face? Always leaning forward like he’s about to tip over? Is the song about that guy?

Sorta. It’s more about people not really considering the possible outcomes of the latitude they’re giving him. I’ve been trying mightily not to demonize the fuckwits who voted for him, not to push them into a corner where they dig in harder, but that takes a little more grace than I’ve got to offer at the moment.

What’s on the horizon for you?

 Working furiously on a new record. Trying to ditch the EP crutch and make it a full length and have it out by late spring. Pretty ambitious pace. And we’re warming up for Creem Circus on March 15th at the Ruba Club. You should come.

Ah, Creem Circus! I‘m friendly with their drummer, Rockbottom Rob, so it’s a distinct possibility!